The Power of Balance with Jens De Vos

In the tenth episode of Metal Maven Podcast, Jens De Vos of Off the Cross joins me to discuss the band's next album and recent milestones, his latest film projects, and how he balances life as a cinematographer and musician.

Transcript

Metal Maven:   0:01
Welcome to the Metal Maven Podcast, where we explore and discover the process and passions of artists in the Metal, music and art community.

Metal Maven:   0:13
In Episode 10 of Metal Maven podcast, I'm joined by Jens De Vos, lead guitarist of Belgian metal quartet, Off The Cross, as well as a content creator for his business, Panda Productions. Thanks for being here Jens, what's up?

Jens De Vos:   0:27
Hey, thank you for inviting me to this conversation. I'm going to do my very best to not sound nervous.

Metal Maven:   0:34
I've honestly been there – I was literally shaking my first episode I ever recorded. So, I think you're going to do fine, don't worry. Just for reference, Jens and I began working with Epica around the same time – since The Quantum Enigma was released, and I've thrown a few lower thirds and title cards his way in the past. I've found myself always blown away by your work Jens, especially since it usually ends up contained within my designs, so your attention to detail was and is appreciated.

Jens De Vos:   1:05
Yeah, thank you very much. It's always great to work with good graphics because I think graphic design is one of the most difficult things there is. At least for me because when I finish a video production, there's always this moment when you have to put on the titles and the font and you have to choose fonts and put graphics on there. And that's just one of the most difficult things there is, I think. I've got a lot of respect for people who can make a good and clean graphic design.

Metal Maven:   1:36
Thank you so much. Even though I've known you for quite some time, and we work together, we haven't actually spoken at length, which is kind of weird. I know Daniel introduced us briefly, I believe at Epic Metal Fast – I think 2016. But you're usually really occupied because you're filming or performing – you're doing either of those things. But I'm happy to get a chance to chat with you properly today.

spk_1:   2:01
Ah, you're right. Yeah, it was, the 013 in Tilburg, right?

spk_0:   2:05
That as well, yep, I was at both of them.

spk_1:   2:07
Okay, that's 013. I played with my band and I was shooting for Epica, so that was a very, very busy day as far as I remember. And I'm not the most social always. It's just because I'm shy and awkward. Sometimes people misunderstand it for being unfriendly or not interested. But it's just me being awkward.

spk_0:   2:31
Honestly, I'm the same way, so no offense taken at all – we're good. Before we get into Off The Cross, because the band is really starting to take off, I wanted to go back to the beginning, which is important because your early years set the stage for what you're currently doing and have created for yourself. As a teenager, you stated that you were a guitarist in a few bands, but word spread when you started creating music videos for local bands. What made you decide to step behind the camera?

spk_1:   3:02
Well, yeah, I just really loved the music scene and everything about it and around it, so I wanted to do everything, basically. I wanted to be in a band and play guitar, make my own music, but also make videos and take photos, try to do management and bookings, and organize my own festivals. I just wanted to do all of it. So I think I did all of it at some point. But my girlfriend back then, she studied at film school, so starting to make music videos was an obvious choice. So we bought a crappy camera and we asked the local punk rock bands if we could shoot a music video for them for free. And yeah, we did it and it was a  really cool experience actually, and I had a lot of fun doing it. And back then, I think it was like 2010, it was still really special for a local band to have a music video. I think compared to now,  it's if you don't have videos or content as bands, you practically don't exist. And that's something that really changed through the last 10 years, I think.

Metal Maven:   4:15
When you look back at those first pieces of work, the old music videos you created, how do they make you feel? Because I know looking back at my old designs, I still really like them, but I see where I could have made them better. So do you have a favorite music video from the archives?

Jens De Vos:   4:31
Well, picking a favorite is really difficult, but yeah, I know what you're saying. I'm kind of extreme in that when I make something after when it's finished, I almost always hate it. And then, only after a few months and maybe even years, I start appreciating it and seeing the bigger picture. Yeah, maybe you know the feeling, like being so close and involved in a project or production that you start losing the bigger picture or just seeing it as a whole. But yeah, obviously I see an evolution compared to my work back then. Technically and creative, I think. But a favor that's just very difficult to choose.

Metal Maven:   5:19
That's all right. I figured maybe it was that punk rock one because it was that first taste of doing it. Maybe there was a good experience attached to it.

Jens De Vos:   5:27
Well, yeah, it's mostly the experiences that stick with me and not the video itself. And like even that the very first video I did, It's It's lost its Nobody has it anymore. I don't have it anymore. And off the Internets of I can never see it again, which which sex

spk_0:   5:45
I know that happens. I know, like even designed song like our very first computer we had, and it's just totally gone now, and I wish I had the opportunity to look back at it. So eventually you built a quite a portfolio of work and made a name for yourself in the music industry. In 2013 you created Panda Sessions, which was a music show featuring live studio sessions and interviews from over 30 artists. The show ran for four seasons on Belgacom TV. So how did this opportunity present itself? And how has it influenced your current work?

spk_1:   6:25
Well, yeah. Like I said, I I always wanted to do like a lot of different stuff. So making a TV show music TV show was one of those things, because why not the first to two seasons? I just made by myself because they weren't for Belgacom TV made by myself, then got some air time on the local digital TV station and found myself a sponsor, which waas large merchandising. They sell like Ben chairs and stuff s. So they covered most of my costs, and I just made it without earning any money or having any money. Just because I really loved the wringer than working with a lot of artists on a short period of time, and then the show got kind of popular in the music scene. And then I sold it to Belgacom. TV and value come. It's like one of the with the two big mobile providers in Belgium. So, yeah, then I could do it, like, for real and have a big budget and a decent film studio and all those kinds of things, So that was really cool to do, especially when you're 21 or 22 years old.

spk_0:   7:36
Absolutely well, it's cool, too, because you're going from music videos, which I feel is a totally different type of creative project versus this, more like intimate studio recording sessions. I don't feel it's a lot more personal, so you have to approach filming it differently.

spk_1:   7:53
Yeah, it's completely different, but it's still there for me. It's always the combination with video and music in any anywhere. For that, Yeah, that that does it for me.

spk_0:   8:05
You work with a bunch of different bands. So what is your approach to making content unique for each of them?

spk_1:   8:12
Well, I think each band is unique, so my actually it's really easy because my only job is to get trying capture that uniqueness. I guess S O F A ban is really heavy and brutal than my filming. And editing will be more aggressive and more energetic than when working front of kind of mellow bends. And it will be, then the filming and editing will be a lot more atmospheric. So I just try to understand and connect with artists I'm working with and translate their music into video.

spk_0:   8:48
So for after movies, as an example like, Are you given, like carte blanche like to do whatever you want, like, choose which song is featured? Or how does how does that process work with, you know, collaborating

spk_1:   9:01
usually with after movies? I have a lot of freedom, mostly the bands. They say, Yeah, big pick a song from my latest album most of the time and then just try and capture the essence of the show. In. Nowadays it's one minute after movie.

spk_0:   9:19
You have some really cool projects coming up, and I'll let you decide which one you want to talk about first.

spk_1:   9:25
So, yeah, um uh, working on area, actually finishing the project now. They contacted me the first time. Two years ago, and I have no idea what it waas actually Arian and just remember telling it to the epic I guys like, Yeah, Aryan. They contacted me to make their DVD and just the look on their faces made me realize. Okay, this is probably a big deal.

spk_0:   9:48
Oh, yeah? Use d'oh! Well, I know Simone is like a featured guest, and I know Marcus Well,

spk_1:   9:55
yeah, they were part of the show, which we recorded in September. So Yeah, I did the DVD two years ago, and I did it this year on. It's just crazy, like capturing that kind of show with, like, 50 people rather across the stage and such a massive production and lead walls. And this time there was like a castle. So many were singers on the towers, your singers coming to gates. It's it's crazy and you can't miss any of those key moments. So it's, ah, pretty crazy job to do,

spk_0:   10:28
So I usually see maybe you and someone else recording like a different angles. But for area, it's a much bigger production. What was your set up for that?

spk_1:   10:39
Well, yeah, If I do those DVD productions like area or Camelot or I did a few more than then I I contact a lot of other freelancers, and I breathed them about the show like This is going to happen. Make sure everyone knows like you're on the stage, right? So capture every guitar solo and like that, every camera guy has his own job. And, yeah, like with Aryan, we have, like dirty cameras, every regards to shows. So, yeah, that's a lot of footage to edit, and it goes from GoPro's Inside of Drum, set to Crane's going nine meters high. So yes, it's weird, but it's really cold. It was actually my favorite thing to do these days is working on a bigger production like that?

spk_0:   11:27
Well, there's so much content to go through at the end. I mean, you have so many different angles of video and try and make it all seamless. How much time does that usually take you? Are you the only one editing? Is that your sole responsibility, or do you get help to edit certain parts of the video as well?

spk_1:   11:43
Well, I should try and get some help because it's yeah, like you said, it's a lot of work, but until now it do everything by myself. And with Aryan, for example, it's it's tree months working on. It's like every day, I guess, and you're trying to give the feeling to the viewer of the show off the film that they were inside of the venues. So really, try and capture the energy in all the key moments inside of the video. Yeah, it's a real challenge, but I I'm starting to get better at it, because when I did the first Aryan Show two years ago, it was also my first DVD production. So there was really tough, especially because it's not just a band, but it's like this big production, but I'm much more comfortable with it Now.

spk_0:   12:30
I get it that, like, you wanna be the one editing it will save you money. And it's also quality controls like you know, that you're gonna like the result

spk_1:   12:39
exactly. That's it's really difficult for me to give stuff. Wait because, yeah, there's my name on it. So

spk_0:   12:46
exactly so we discussed prior about collaborating with Epoca on their video content, and that work has created opportunity for you on stage as well. Your band off the cross recently played support for their design Your Universe 10th anniversary show in Moscow, Russia. But that was also part of your own headliner tour through the country. How is that experience for you guys?

spk_1:   13:11
Russia? Waas. Yeah, it was a crazy experience, like it's one of those things you never thought you were going to do in your life. And you go to places where you never touch. You would visit our meet people you never thought you would meet. And it's just totally crazy. Yeah, most cow is pretty normal, But if you go through the other towns like we've been to a place close to Kazakhstan, then you meet. You meet people there never met anyone international. But if you go to countries like Russia or maybe China or Japan, or yet they nobody tours there, especially outside of the big cities. So if someone's playing there, that's not Russian or that they will come to the show like when we drove in the inside of the cities, we saw posters without faces. It's like against buildings and stuff, so it's crazy playing those places and you get a lot of gratitude for going to those places from the crowd and a lot of energy. So there was one of the ad that's a bucket list thing for me, for sure. And then, yeah, Moscow epic I was. That was crazy, cause on our own headline shows, we have, like, between 50 or 300 people a night. But whenever God, they had a sold out show for about 3000 people and the Russians, they came really early. So the venue was pretty packed when we played, and it was just really cool to do and to hang out with my friends in Africa in in Moscow. So I'm really grateful towards Africa for allowing us to do those shows.

spk_0:   14:47
That's awesome. Well, now that you're back home, you also recently had another big show on the seventh of December baby concerts with support from four AM King and arson. How was that experience and letting a show in your home country for how much work and passion goes into creating your music? It must feel like a great accomplishment.

spk_1:   15:06
Yeah, it wascause also a B. It's like a really special place. It's really prestigious venue in Belgium in Brussels, and it was like a gamble for us like will anyone show up to a headline show in Brussels? It's not that easy, but yeah, it was It was packed at the place was a great night was almost sold out. And it was just a really good end of the year for us because we we did some really cool stuff in Belgium, like we played the biggest, like grass pulp and Alcatraz, the bigger festivals with great spots and area, a lot of fun shows. And then to finish it off it at a B, that was really cool to see people actually showing up and wearing our shirts and no singing our songs. And yet that's why you do it, I guess.

spk_0:   15:54
Yeah, I must be the best feeling ever. You put somewhat work into your music. You know you want it. You want people to receive it and feel it and want to come to your shows and have a good experience.

spk_1:   16:05
Yeah, because I never take the people showing up for granted because, yeah, there's so many bands these days and people like, take the time to spend the night with us and listen to our music. Then I really appreciate it

spk_0:   16:20
I was on Isaac's instagram stories. That he's there is just like recording U S O. I was getting a little snippets of the show. So in order to reach this point where you're at right now, some adjustments internally had to be made. You know, you have new members. So how is that improve conditions in regards to dynamic and, you know, dedication to the vision that you have for off the cross

spk_1:   16:44
of the girls is exists for three years by now. And when we started out this band, we're like, like, set at the table with the band members. And we said, like all right, are we going to do this yes or no? And everybody said yes. But it's really easy to underestimate how much this can ask of you cause combining motivated bands like this with personal lives and families are full time jobs. It's just really hard, So yep. Since then I'm the only one remaining. Actually, in two years time, I'm the only one from sitting on the table that's still in the bend on, and it was pretty hard at times, but now we've got a bands like we're all dedicated, dedicated guys and people, which is most important people on the rights place in their lives. To do this, like the right age and the rights mindset to go for it. And they had the last few months. It feels really fun and professional at the same time. And that's what I really like.

spk_0:   17:50
That's the best combination. Well, now that things were taking off, how are you planning to balance cinematography projects and band?

spk_1:   17:59
Yeah, it's sometimes difficult for a lot of time. It's really easy because there's a lot of overlapping stuff because it's the same kind of business, both metal music business as opposed. And also we had a lot of opportunities with the band that we were would have never had if I wouldn't be doing this video thing and us getting to know a lot of people inside of the business so it helps each other. But, yeah, I've had to make some difficult choices if you have to. Like if you have an opportunity to go shoot a really big band and you have to say no because you were playing in a show, a small show with your own band, that's hard. But yeah, You just have to set priorities, I guess, and make choices

spk_0:   18:42
well. What's really convenient is that you create all the music videos for off the cross, so it gives that professional quality and saves you money as well, so that can get poured into other endeavors. Like your new album, which you're currently working on at Sandline Studios. 2020 is looking good so far. So can you offer any details about your upcoming album?

spk_1:   19:05
Well, have we recorded in a few different studios, actually, but it's really cool to work with people who look up to like heels. It was like guiding us electricity to the making of the album, and he played all the keys like the Hammonds Oregon and the grand piano. And he's really like a guy who was in control when he feels that I'm like slacking or you will always tell it like, Okay, let's set a deadline. Well, if this is done by then, and he's there is a great guy, and he's also mixing the album as we speak, and also we have got a lot of other cool people involved, like Cohen from Epic guys helping me out with the arrangements and the orchestration on Dhe Fabby, singer from Elevate E. She did some amazing guest vocals on The slower Son We Have and where we recorded at a Sunday in with Joost, and it was such a cool experience for me to hear her sing my words. That was crazy. I remember she did the first take and she was like, Was this okay? And you just looked at me and I was almost in tears and he was like, Yeah, like looking at the answer is faith. I think this is This was what he was going for. So yeah, it's it's really exciting times for us making this album because now it's It's time to break out of our own country and go international. Find the label, the right agents, partners, all those kinds of things. So it's It's a bit terrifying, but also really exciting.

spk_0:   20:43
That's the only way it is when you start something new. It's completely scary, but also very, very exciting. And it's also good to that. You've established yourself in your community and people are kind of rallying behind you and helping you collaborate on your new album. So it's great that you have that support?

spk_1:   21:01
Yeah, it's It's always blows my mind when those kind off Rheal people people. I look up to one to help me out because I'm always really scared when asking them, like when I sent an email to yours. If you wanted to mix our album, I was like, No, he's gonna He's not gonna have time has got all these big ass, huge bands and projects going on is not gonna have time for my Ben. But he was really I was really excited. Same with cooler or with eyes, like helping me with song writing or I really appreciate those guys helping me out.

spk_0:   21:36
I interviewed Iris from spoil engine like that was from Isaac. He messaged me about that. You know, sometimes, like, have to step back. And I can't believe the support that I have, especially with this podcast. So, like, I totally get it when you're like, Oh, my God, like looking at this album being made. You're like there's a lot of people I know that are helping me, and it's kind of insane.

spk_1:   21:57
Yeah, that's what you supposed to do, I guess, help each other. I like this saying high tide raises all ships. That's yeah, that's something. I try and remember a lot of things.

spk_0:   22:09
So for this new album, are you trying to create something completely new and different? Like, what is the vibe?

spk_1:   22:16
I think where it's always a search for our own sounds like for this album, I I'm starting to get the feeling that we're getting there. I don't think I will ever have the feeling that we were there, but I think we're pretty close to where I wanna be. It's modern, but still there's a lot of classic elements in there, and it's a more energetic bit faster. It's catchy. Yeah, I'm just really proud of the songs we have, and I hope we'll get it out there in the biggest way possible.

spk_0:   22:52
Well, you just have to always see yourself or see The band is like a work in progress. I mean, when eventually, after more albums or you'll look back and you can definitely see where you've improved and changed and grown so all in good time. So my last question is absolutely unrelated to everything we just discussed. Why is your nickname Panda? Did you have a say in this. It's in your company name as well. So I'm wondering what the backstory is. I've always wondered this and never had a chance to ask you.

spk_1:   23:25
Well, yeah, obviously a lot of people ask me, but I really have to come up with a better started because there really isn't one. I just remember when we did that first music video for local punk rock bands and there was, like, a big premiere on. We had to have a name like me and friends who made that for you. And and I don't I really don't remember. Just came out. Brenda Bender Productions. All right, let's go with it. And I'm still stuck with it after 10 years and people all over the world Comey Penna. But yeah, I guess I'm okay with it.

spk_0:   24:02
All right. I was just wondering. I mean, it works. It sounds catchy. Panda productions. It sounds good to make.

spk_1:   24:08
Yeah, I've been getting like, Bender gives free from everyone for less 10 years and having a big collection of pen, the stuffed animals or little statues and old things like that.

spk_0:   24:20
All right, You're stuck with it now. You can't change it. It's done Yeah, well, that's all the questions I had for you today. Ends. I really appreciate you taking time out of your evening to chat with me and tell me a little bit more about your work. And it was great to talk with you. Finally,

spk_1:   24:35
yeah, no problem. Was was really cool to do. I enjoyed it.

spk_0:   24:41
For more information on Panna productions and to view Yen's recent video projects, visit Panda Productions dot B E And make sure to check out off the cross dot b e to listen to the band's latest music. Watch their music videos and documentaries, plus get tickets to upcoming shows in 2020. Visit Metal Maven podcast dot com for links, tea and social profiles, videos and read the full transcript of this interview. Thanks for tuning in and be sure to subscribe to Metal Maven podcast on Apple stitcher Spotify and Google